People like me are furious that a religious institution should be able to have a say in forming laws. It's quite simply un-American. Of course, the church claims it didn't do anything wrong. They say they paid somewhere around $2,000 to fly somebody to California, and that was it. But really, that was far from "it." They were deeply involved in passing the thing, probably in starting the thing.
Check out this complaint filed against them. To call it detailed would be a huge understatement. I'm only excerpting a portion, but if you're interested in this case, check out the link below. This thing is thorough.
[Excerpt]
Church organized phone banks from Utah and Idaho
Sending direct mail to voters
Transported people to California over several weekends
Used the LDS Press Office to send out multiple News Releases to promote their activities to nonmembers
Walked precincts
Ran a speakers bureau
Distributed thousands of lawn signs and other campaign material
Organized a "surge to election day"Church leaders travel to California
Set up of very elaborate web sites
Produced at least 9 commercials and 4 other video broadcasts all in support of Prop 8
Conducted at least 2 satellite simulcasts over 5 Western states.
Read more at: AmericaBlog
There is nothing un-American about what the LDS church did. No on 8 had much support from churches, that actually donated money and time as well. (The money came from the church members not the church itself) How is that people never complain about the churches that supported "no on 8"?
ReplyDeleteExercising your freedom to vote and campaign is about the most American thing you can do.
What was Un-American was the backlash of vandalism, intimidation, and assaults that were suffered by the people that voted yes on 8.
That is Un-American.
Really? Using your tax-exempt church to rally your members for a political cause, and enacting civil laws restricting the rights of people NOT of your religion in a different state is "American?" It doesn't seem right to me.
ReplyDeleteI will not defend violent acts by anybody who hasn't already been violently acted upon. But I certainly understand it. Mormons' (and anyone's) religious beliefs are their own, and have no place whatsoever being enacted into law for everybody else. THAT is Un-American.
Let's see how happy Mormons would be if some other group enacted laws to restrict THEIR rights in some way. Would "majority rule" be a good thing then?
ReplyDeleteThis shows how little about your own countries history. Obviously you never heard of the "Mormon Extermination Order". Right up to 1976 it was legal to kill a Mormon just because of his religion. NOW THAT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
DeleteWell then, Maorinash (reacting to something I wrote four years ago, wow), the Mormons OUGHT to know better. And no, I don't claim to know the history of Mormonism through the ages, the South Park episode was quite enough. Dumb,dumb,dumb,dumb,dumb, indeed.
DeleteI thought this country had freedom of religion. Stop trying to put us down this is unjust. Why do you keep putting us down where just other people we are not aliens. Try to put yourself in our position would you want anybody else to talk to you about how stupid you are. Reconsider what you say and stop putting other people down. It's free country and i know you can say what you want but just know you are hurting people and you are the one that has to deal with it!
ReplyDeleteYes, we have freedom OF and FROM religion. Or at least we should. My attitude toward Mormons would be nearly neutral, were it not for their massive funding of anti-gay ballot measures. YOUR side fired the first shot in this war.
ReplyDeletePersonally, if find ALL religions to be preposterous, and Mormonism particularly so. As an agnostic though, I get ZERO respect from religious institutions--Mormons included. They want to write their religious beliefs into law, even though *I*--not an "alien" either--don't even believe them myself.
YOU, as part of the Mormon church are hurting people if you silently allow them to be politically active with your money. How do you deal with that?
Choosing to be Gay is an Obamanation in the eyes of the Lord.
ReplyDeleteGreenlee, you are fighting for the wrong side and your efforts are promoting wickedness. This is War between Good and evil, in a Nation which is founded on the Bible and Christianity. Unfortunately, our leaders are wicked and corrupt to have allowed this Thing to see the light of day.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Mormons, they don't need a law to put restrictions on them. Their right to Live was restricted when they were persecuted and murdered in the streets and homes where they lived. And all because they put God first. They are very family oriented, generous, hard working, and prosperous. Those traits are an Obamanation, but only to the Wicked.
Repent Jimmy, there is forgiveness for you too.
This nation was NOT founded on the Bible or Christianity. The founding fathers took great pains to avoid that.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing to repent for, and no one to ask forgiveness of. Your "god" is about as meaningful to me as The Great Gazoo. Prove "he" exists, and you might have something. Until then, it's all a fantasy.
I forgot to respond to Mr./Ms. Anonymous' contention that "choosing" to be "Gay" (wow, capitalized!) is an "Obamanation" in the eyes of the Lord.
ReplyDelete1. There was no choice involved.
2. "Obamanation" was a cute turn of a phrase. Three years ago. And bears ZERO relevence to this discussion. "Abomination" is just about as worthless.
3. God has eyes? Why? Isn't he all seeing/all knowing/all hearing/all smelling/all tasting without having to use something as pedestrian as a physical body? Does god also have toenails? Nosehairs? Foreskin?
4. I rarely give a thought to "The Lord." Honestly, I consider the likelihood that "he" exists so remote, calling myself agnostic is really only because some atheists rub me the wrong way.
And finally, I'm not a Jimmy, I'm a Jamie. You presume a LOT for a cowardly "Anonymous."
for your info I'm a Mormon and there is no such thing unless you saw those missionaries kissing in front of you then you hold your tongue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteand that isn't good enough for you then go to our website lds.org or mormon.org
so if that's all James then I think you should now that the missionaries are under strict rules such as no movies no music unless the are using there instruments no foul langue and the are to not have any sexual influence or drug habits so I'm pretty sure that the picture you posted is a fake or some one is pretending to be a Mormon and if not then those missionaries are sent home also the serve the church for a year and then go home but first they have to be worthy nothing unclean.
ReplyDeleteRuby, thanks for visiting. I never claimed the photo was of "real" Mormon missionaries, and don't care a whit either way. As I said in the comments above, I find your religion--all religions--to be preposterous. I respect your RIGHT to your beliefs, but don't respect your actual beliefs at all. You go ahead and believe a whole raft of obviously untrue things, it's absolutely your right. But don't expect rational people to go along, or sit quietly by while your church attempts to pass laws that affect the rest of us. Keep your religion and its edicts in the church and its congregation. Don't go trying to preach to me, especially not through laws.
ReplyDeleteTwo bolts cant hold a device together that was designed to be held together with a NUT and a BOLT. Call it a friendship. Call it a meaningful relationship between two people. Call it a union of convenience to tap into the benefits which government has to offer. To call it a marriage is an insult to any man or woman who is married to someone of the OPPOSITE sex. It is living a LIE to those who are married to someone of the SAME sex. They don't think it is, but rational thinking people do. Other than that point, we need to all, you included, say only that which builds up and promotes good among all the cultures of people. Coming to the knowledge of the truth about SPIRITUAL things will never happen by dwelling on and exploiting irrelevant things. The knowledge of spiritual things only comes through spiritual means. You probably knew this once but gave up trying. I find all people like you to be preposterous. I respect your RIGHT to be preposterous, but don't respect your actual preposterous opinions at all. You go ahead and believe a whole raft of things you obviously are opinionated about and perhaps misunderstand, it's absolutely your right. But don't pass your foolishness off as intelligence until you have humbled yourself enough to qualify as one who has successfully exercised the means for finding the spiritual answers to life's dilemmas.
ReplyDeleteIf you go to the hardware store, you'll find quite a variety of adapters, and other items that will indeed allow you to fit those two bolts to hold something together. That said, fortunately, the human body is marvelously adaptable, and the human mind inventive and creative. Not that much invention or creativity is required, people have been having gay sex for all of recorded (and probably unrecorded) history. Probably at whatever passed for their version of the RNC with whatever passed for a male prostitute in prehistoric times! Heehee, just a topical reference for you.
DeleteBy the way it is not up to YOU what I call my marriage. It's none of your business. But why call it anything other than what it is? There is NO functional difference between my relationship and those of my straight married friends' marriages. So, why invent a new word?
Spirituality and religion are not a requirement of citizenship, and aren't for everyone. And belief in the MORMON faith requires far too much "willing suspension of disbelief" for me. I mean like quantum leaps too much.