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After all, according to many conservatives--and the theory is suspect, I must point out--a "natural born citizen" must be born of two citizen
So, while I don't care where Santorum's parents were born, any "birther" should. And Santorum's base is very, very likely to be chock-full-o'-birthers. The birthers, remember, were the people who first believed that President Obama was born in Kenya (or Canada, or in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, or elsewhere). Some still do, and/or believe that Obama has dual citizenship, and believe that disqualifies him. Or they believe he isn't who he says he is at all, has several Social Security numbers, is some sort of Manchurian Candidate, and any of several other twisted conspiracy theories. All of those theories are debunked at Obama Conspiracy Theories, if you are interested.
But what I'm looking for is consistency. Shouldn't any good birther question Santorum's eligibility?
Two citizen "parents" not two citizen "Adults". Agreed if it turns out he is not NBC then he should not be eligible to run for president and should be called out on it... but liberals will do nothing because it would call into question Obama. I will not vote for him if that is the case. Then again... he is not currently my candidate.
ReplyDeleteShow me, anonymous, where any law--anywhere--says that "natural born citizen," means "born to two citizen parents." And how did that affect the first several Presidents, whose parents couldn't possibly have been citizens? Or Chester Arthur? IMHO, the "NBC" crap started when the birh certificate stuff started to peter out. You're just looking for a technicality to bounce the black guy. Admit it.
ReplyDeleteFor the history and legal cases dealing with the legal term of art natural born Citizen and its being put into the Constitution in Article II Section 1, the presidential eligibility clause see this link: http://www.art2superpac.com/issues.html
ReplyDeleteAs to the founders of our nation they were exempt from the natural born Citizen clause by a specific exception/grandfather clause included in Article II Section 1.
The Vattel citation is--as far as I can see--for matters if international law, not Presidential viability. The second one doesn't seem germane. The third one doesn't say two citizen parents. The fourth only says that citizen parents' children ARE citizens, not that the parents MUST be. The fith is the same as the fourth. All of this seems like a desperate reach to try to ensnare a black guy on a technicality.
ReplyDeleteAlso, there were doubtless Presidents in the early days who were NOT founders, but whose parents didn't both come from the colonial US. If 35 was the youngest age, and 50s-60s more common, you could get all the way to 1836 without citizen parents, well past founders.
For instance: Martin Van Buren, 11th President, not a founder. Parents both born in Ireland.
ReplyDeleteMartin Van Buren was eligible to be President since he was born a US citizen in New York, Dec. 5, 1782, PRIOR TO adoption of the Constitution in Sept. 17, 1787.
ReplyDeleteChester Arthur was the only other president (prior to Obama) to violate the natural born citizenship clause, since his father was not a US citizen prior to Chester's birth in 1829. Like Obama, he lied about his past.
The first standing challenge to Obama's eligibility will be heard in a Georgia court on Jan. 26. This will only determine if he is eligible to be on their 2012 state presidential ballot. If found ineligible, all hell will break loose.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/01/georgia-court-to-hear-obama-eligibility.html
Oh, please do tell me where Obama lied about his past. And also tell me: Is Rick Santorum eligible? Weirdo.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, even if your reasoning had merit, you can almost guarantee a "grandfathering" here. He's already been president for a term. He's in. They're not bouncing him on a technicality. How much would you like to bet?
ReplyDelete1st lie, fake short form CLB.
ReplyDelete2nd lie, doctored electronic PDF long form CLB.
3rd lie, fake SSN from Connecticut.
Do your own research on Santorum, and Romney for that matter.
If ineligible, he'll be toast!
1) Bullshit, prove it.
ReplyDelete2) Bullshit, prove it (and I have expertise here).
3) Bullshit, prove it.
Oh, and Anonymous, I forgot to say: Are you seriously a full-blooded BIRTHER? Do you know that every single solitary conspiracy arrow in the birthed quiver is DEBUNKED? Go here if you don't believe me: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/
ReplyDeleteA website run by Zombies? Amazing! But a complete waste of time! Doesn't debunk anything!
ReplyDeleteAlbert Renshaw has debunked both short and long form CLB's (and there are many others on youtube using their real names.) No one has debunked his work.
Susan Daniels is the most famous for discovering the fake Connecticut SSN.
Linda Jordan ran the E-verify self check on Obama showing that his SSA record did not verify.
Like I said, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. Get independent analysis. Obama is NOT an NBC, never was, never will be. Minor v. Happersett sets precedent. http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/the-express-lane-to-natural-born-clarity/
The e-verify thing is ridiculous. They were posing as an employer, using the service in an illegal way, and got no result. That doesn't really mean anything. The long-form birth certificate was NOT debunked. They picked apart a PDF form, and they were thouroghly wrong. I proved it right here on my blog.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are bonkers or racist or both. This is a very, very, very fringe movement you've got going, working from a conclusion, and trying to fill in the evidence. When you are debunked, you ignore the debunking, or move the goalposts. It's ridiculous.
And what's with the "zombie" comment? That site has taken apart every, single claim by you idiots, and proven them wrong. You just don't want to see it.
Here is the post where I debunked the crazy "long form is fake" people. It also generated a really long argument with an unreasonable idiot.
ReplyDeletehttp://greenleegazette.blogspot.com/2011/05/debunking-birthers-scanning-certificate.html
Racist??? Sounds like the last resort of an Alinskyite. Your minimal effort cannot compare to the hours of technical analysis already out there by people that do it for a living. This blog is definitely not worth continuing. You must enjoy talking to the wall.
ReplyDeleteI'm not an "Alinskyite" whatever that is. Sounds like something Glenn Beck might say, I suppose. Yes, I maintain that the birther movement is rooted in racism. No other president has been asked to jump through the hoops you want him to jump through. And just WHAT is different about THIS president? Hmmm?
ReplyDeleteThank you for your assessment of my blog, but I'm in my 5th year, and have a small but consistent following. I won't miss you. Interesting though, that you didn't comment on my debunking of the long form claims.
Natural Born Citizen, as the Founders knew it, meant born of two US citizen parents. They based this on a concept known at the time as "hereditary allegiance." They placed more emphasis on to WHOM one was born vs. WHERE one was born.
ReplyDeleteNatural Born was used by the Founders as a NATIONAL SECURITY measure. They did not want the son of a foreign national having similar allegiance as his father to become POTUS. In other words, they did not want one who had foreign citizenship, and therefore a great potential for foreign allegiances, to become POTUS.
Look at it another way- Can one be born a citizen of Kenya, and become POTUS? Article 2, Section 1 says no. And yet Obama admits he was born a Kenyan citizen. You may not like it, but- It is the law, written into our Constitution.
Lastly- That you clearly don't understand the grandfather clause the Founders wrote into Article 2 Section 1 exempting the first presidents does not help your credibility on this matter.
Obama does not meet the test of Natural Born Citizen. If Santorum's parents were not naturalized citizens at the time of his birth, he certainly may be a US citizen (having either been born on US soil or naturalized after birth), but he is not a "natural born citizen", and is not eligible to be POTUS either.
MY credibility? Birthers have NO credibility. Pot, this is kettle. You're black! Oh, no! BLACK! Heh.
ReplyDeleteSo if Santorum's parents took a test, and went through a ceremony, he's in. If they did not, he's out. He's the same guy regardless, but what his PARENTS did before he was born is THAT important? That's pretty goofy right there. I doubt VERY much that the courts will agree with you.
The whole "Kenyan citizenship" thing is ridiculous. He never lived in Kenya, he was born in Hawaii. There really is quite a number of "possible" technicalities you want to bounce Obama out of office on, aren't there? Why did your group go to all the trouble of seeking out this minutiae? Are you sure it isn't his race?
It seems to me that you all started from the conclusion "he isn't eligible," and then found eighteen different reasons that he isn't, each of them something of a stretch.
As I said before, this is all moot. President Obama is IN. He's not going to be bounced on a technicality. He'll be "grandfathered" if nothing else, should one of your strained claims somehow convince somebody.
You bring no facts, nor can you refute anything I have stated. All you can do is engage in an attack and proffer what amounts to no nore than your (flawed, and highly biased) opinion, and sheer speculation. I have no agenda here based on race or anything other than observing the law, as written into Article 2 Section 1 of the US Constitution. You bring nothing to the table.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, Obama freely admitted on his campaign website that he was in fact not only born a Kenyan citizen, but a British citizen as well, since Kenya was a British colony at the time. (Obama was born with Kenyan citizenship due to the fact that his father, Barack Obama Sr., was a Kenyan citizen.) Take your foot out of your mouth now, your credibility is gasping for air. My stating he was born a Kenyan citizen was his statement of fact. If you have a problem with that, take it up with him.
Also- Are you sure you want to refer to the US Contitutional requirement for being POTUS of being a US citizen, and ONLY a US citizen, for one's entire life... again, this is the law of our land... as "minutiae"?
ReplyDeleteIf so I think you should re-examine your commitment to being a citizen yourself.
Oh for Christ's sake. No, you do not get to try to claim some kind of higher ground when you are a freakin' birther. But here are some facts for you:
ReplyDelete"“Natural born citizen” definitely does not mean having citizen parents, and it probably doesn’t mean being born on American soil."
"Also please review additional substantive argument of the issue in the comments that follow, regarding the fact that the British Nationality Act of 1981 repeals the section of the British Nationality Act of 1948 under with Obama gained British citizenship in the first place.
So in conclusion, Barack Obama is not a citizen of Kenya nor of Britain."
--Found at ObamaConspiracy.org, heavily researched, linked and attributed
And if you're wondering why I have been reluctant to "bring facts" etc., it is because I've done it. . .over and over again. With people just as nuts as you are. It's tiring. It is all at the site I provided. Each and every point of your alleged case against the President is refuted there. ALL of it. You and the rest of your ilk are just to thick to read it.
ReplyDeleteThose are not facts. Again, Obama ADMITS he was a Kenyan citizen. What is it about that that you don't understand?
ReplyDeleteAnd you falsely label me a "birther", which I am not, (I could not care less about Obama's birth certificate or where he was born), and based on that mislabel you would deny me the credibility of the facts as stated in the US Constitution? That quite elitist of you.
Besides, the premise you cited above is absurd. That act you refernce was dated 1981, right? Obama was born in 1961... and at that time he was born with KENYAN CITIZENSHIP. This is his own admission. Further, the very nature of "natural born" is that sole American citizenship must be possessed at birth, and for one's entire life, without modification by law (ie "naturalization"). Such modification by law or statute is exactly what you are citing above, AFTER he was born, and that is prima facie evidence AGAINST your very argument. Ergo- Obama is ineligible.
Self-professed "experts/journalists" like do a disservice to the country by spreading misinforation and hyperbole and presenting it as the written truth. Stop embarrassing yourself and shut down your blog.
Sorry, Anonymous, but since you didn't leave your name, I assumed I've been talking to the same person throughout this thread.
ReplyDelete"the British Nationality Act of 1981 repeals. . ." Repeals. Revokes. Undoes. Is no more. Kenyan citizenship in 1961 WAS British citizenship. Obama wasn't "naturalized." The modification was to a citizenship passed by parantage. One that is no longer valid. I get it that it's a bit convoluted and complicated.
So, do you actually consider Obama a citizen by birth, just not a "natural born citizen?" That is a very thin distinction, and one hardly worth making a federal case over.
If your aim is to clarify for future contests, bully for you, I have no issue. If your aim is to try to eject a sitting president that you don't like over a technicality. . .then you're just bonkers.
My aim is both. Laws have been violated, and that requires a response in order for justice to be done. And the distinction between citizen and "natural born citizen" is hardly "thin". The Founders placed it in the US Constitution as a precaution, a higher requirement to be President; a national security measure. They deemed it important, and so do I. And- It's the law.
ReplyDeleteIt seems folks like you, that are so quick to defend BO at all cost, even at the expense of reason, really aren't so much about prosecuting a valid counter-argument based on facts (ie, why you think he is natural born and meets the requirement under Art. 2, Sec. 1), but rather what it boils down to is you just DON'T LIKE the fact that the "natural born" clause exists. You don't care for the law itself. You think it's silly. So you call us that would defend the law names, like "birther" etc. That's like not hearing what you want at recess and calling the other person names... kinda childish.
If you don't like the law, and think it's no longer relevant... fine, work to get it changed. Until then, we must uphold the US Constitution.
And if Santorum fails to meet the test as well, he too must abide by the Constitution, and step out of the race, or be disqualified.
1) I do not defend Obama at all costs. I've ripped into him many times right here on this blog thingy.
ReplyDelete2) Yes, "NBC" is in the Constitiution. But it is not defined. YOUR definition of it is not the only one, and isn't definitive.
3) I don't CARE that the NBC clause exists, and don't believe that it has been violated. I believe the President was born in Hawaii, and his mother was a citizen. That's enough.
4) You're still a little bonkers. Let's say you're right, and the Prez misses by a smidge the NBC qualification. Are you saying he did it on purpose? Are you saying that in some way he has allegiance to another country? Are you saying that some sort of damage has been done, simply because his Dad is from Africa? Your quest is a solution in search of a problem.
5) I'm tired of this. I've done it endlessly in the past, and I'm argued out. Every single one of your issues is dealt with on the site I provided. Every. Single. One. I am not as devoted to the suject as you are, so I do not have citations, quotes and links at the ready. I don't care to. I view you as a person on a pointless quest. Because even if you're right? It is almost certain to fail in court. Obama will stay in office anyway. What's the point?