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The Etch-a-Sketch Express? Or The Short Bus?
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Do you remember a few weeks ago, when it came to light that Mitt Romney once taunted a gay kid, then--with his posse--chased after the boy, and forcibly cut his hair? We were told that it was almost 50 years ago, he was just a (18-year-old) kid, and blah, blah, blah, we were being petty. Then, more recently, we found out that Romney also liked to drive around pretending to be a state trooper. In uniform. And actually pulling people over. Pfft! Just innocent pranks! He was just a kid!
Well, the weird kid has apparently not grown up all that much. I'm sure the tea baggers lap this stuff up, but do independents? Do disaffected Democrats? I'm thinking not so much.
Romney Campaign Bus Taunts Obama Supporters
Romney Campaign’s Classless Antics Harm Their Brand
"Tea Bagging"= Image you gay guys keep drooling over.
ReplyDeleteThe rest of us thinks it's queer.
-sofa
Sofa! You're back! No, the tea party used the phrase "tea bag" as a verb FIRST. It was funny, because they didn't know what it meant, and continues to be, because it pisses them off. In reality, "tea bagging" as a sex act? It's hardly exotic or particularly unusual for gay or straight people. Honestly, if you haven't done it, give it a try!
ReplyDeleteNo... no one said who used the phrase first until you disagreed (with the voices in your head?).
DeleteAgain, a strawman created since you can't follow arguments or actually address what is being discussed.
I said "you gay guys keep drooling over" the phrase. Not that it matters. Is your medication adjusted?
Just as confusing as ever.
DeleteYou said that tea bagging equals an image that we gay guys keep drooling over. I simply explained the rationale for using the term. It has nothing to do with me drooling over anything, but with the reason I find it funny. We're both discussing the term. Nothing strawman, crazy or anthing else. And I take no medication. Have I addressed all of your points adequately?
from wikipedia: "During the 1860s, Ulrichs wrote to Karl Marx and sent him a number of books on Uranian (homosexual/transgender) emancipation, and in 1869 Marx passed one of Ulrich's books on to Engels.[2] Engels responded with disgust to Marx in a private letter, lashing out at "pederasts" who are "extremely against nature", ..."
ReplyDeleteamd:"The lowest point in the history of the relationship between socialism and homosexuality undoubtedly begins with the rise of Joseph Stalin in the USSR, after Lenin's death, and continues through the era of state communism in the USSR, East Germany, China and North Korea. In all cases the conditions of sexual minorities, including transgender people, worsened in communist states after the arrival of Stalin. Hundreds of thousands of homosexuals were interned in gulags during the Great Purge, where many were beaten to death."
You need to be thankful that estern civilization and classical western liberals like me are tolerant.
Only douchebags and marxists would agress against others by telling them how to live or how to conduct business. Forcing others against their will (to forcefully redistribute wealth for example, or to kill them if their gay) is tyranny. Sic Semper Tyrannis.
Baffling! WTF do Karl Marx, Ulrichs, the USSR, East Germany, China, Korea or any of the rest of that have to do with this post? See, the problem isn't that I can't support my arguments, it's that I don't understand YOURS. At all.
ReplyDeleteAnd thank you oh so much, Sofa, for your "tolerance." That's not patronizing at all. I guess I can also be thankful that you don't chase me down and cut my hair.
I guess I asked for it, I did wonder what happened to you! I still recommend that you find yourself an opposite-sex sofa and get yer teabaggin' on. If you're a boy sofa, you'll have a good time. And if you're a girl sofa, you'll make the boy sofa happy. See, nothing gay about it!
"WTF do Karl Marx, Ulrichs, the USSR, East Germany, China, Korea or any of the rest of that have to do with this post?"
Delete-JG
comments follow from "tea bagging" and comments about gays who keep drooling over the phrase.
from that, the comment was bout how marxists historically treat gays. If you're ignorant of history, and can't follow a comment thread- Then good luck to you.
Your comment threads are labyrinthine. I don't use the term because I'm imagining delicious balls. I use it because I think it's funny that the tea baggers didn't know what the term meant when they were using it. The pleasure I get from using the term is all schadenfreude, not lust. Are we on the same page now?
DeleteForcing others against their will (to forcefully redistribute wealth for example, or to kill them if their gay) is tyranny.
ReplyDeleteAgree or disagree?
Yes. But who is doing that? Are you trying to say that taxing rich people at a different rate than poor people is tyranny? To that, my answer would be "no."
ReplyDeletecompelling people to pay, to take money from them under threat of violence.
Deletecompelling peoples behavior.
fines, jail, and death for not following the dictates of your overlords.
It's tyranny.
Again, WHO is doing that? And do you get your "liberty and tyrrany" lines from Mark Levin? ARE you Mark Levin?
DeleteIs killing them for being gay any different than killing them for being a 'tax deviate'? Force is used to compel behavior.
DeleteI want that money for my children. If I keep it, I will be killed. I am compelled to obey or be killed.
And you're for that.
May you be compelled to do many things against your will. Karma
Who's going to kill you? The government doesn't kill tax cheats. They might put them in jail, I suppose.
DeleteTaxes are part of living in society. We need roads, police, clean air and water, safe food, cops, firefighters, police. If you think the government wastes money, you'll get no argument. But if you partake in society, you have to help pay for it.
If you're super rich, the extra taxes aren't going to be noticed. Rich people did fine under Clinton. If you're not super rich, your taxes aren't going up? So what is all this about?
You talk about me setting up strawmen. Well that's what you're doing.
I don't need police, since the courts say they have no obligation to protect me. I don't want to pay for SWAT teams to kill my neighbors. They are an army of locusts feeding on us. I no longer get a vote on that.
ReplyDeleteWe constituted this government to protect our rights-
(any of these sound familiar?)
They have created and housed an army of mercenaries in our midst;
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States;
They have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent;
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury;
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments;
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
"Sic Semper Tyrannis"
Always.
"Who's going to kill you?"
ReplyDelete-JG
The guys who come after you have guns. Resist them, and see what happens. They kill you.
==========================
"Taxes are part of living in society."
-JG
No, they're not. Lincoln created federal taxes to pay for the civil war debt. They were voted out, and the supreme court ruled against them in the 1890s. Then the 'progressive' Wilson came in and established an entire socialist takeover of our country. Tax is 'redistrubtion of wealth'. Where have I heard that phrase before?
What it is... is forcing people to behave a certain way, and killing them if they don't comply. That might be your view of society-But then you can't complain when somebody decides they have to coerce your behavior or kill all then gay folks- Because coersion and killing is part of your view of society.
Okay, some questions then.
ReplyDelete- What solution do you propose?
- Is Barack Obama any more or less "tyrannical" than George W. Bush or Mitt Romney?
- Since we are a representative republic, we DID vote for representation, who have impemented taxation. Isn't this "with our consent?"
- If we no longer paid any form of taxes, how would society survive?
- Is there a country in the world (past or present) that has gotten it right? Your idea of an ideal country?
- Do you believe there is an organization above political parties, with an agenda that has put all of this tyranny into motion?
- If right and left are meaningless, where do you find yourself politically? Is there a politician, pundit, writer, thinker, somebody who embodies your political ideal?
I'm honestly not trying to be confrontational with this post. I'd honestly like to understand where you're coming from.
Coercion by killing is not part of my view of society, that is a straw man. How many people per year are killed in the United States for failing to pay their taxes?
ReplyDeleteIf I don't pay for abortions, I will be fined. If I don't pay the fine, I will be jailed. If I refuse to be jailed, I will be killed.
DeleteForcing me to do things against my will= You.
Slavery: Taking the products of my labor, against my will, and using for purposes that you desire. Your society = slavery.
DeleteIf two wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner, does the sheep care what the election results are?
If two men vote another into slavery?
If 10 men vote another into slavery?
If 300 million vote slavery...
Do the slaves get to resist?
Or must they behave a others decide for them?
Or are they free?
Must gays behave, as others decide for them?
Or do some people understand freedom of choice?
Free people want to be left alone. To be free. To choose for themselves. Leave us alone.
When you enable the use of force against me, then you are the agressor, demanding the extraction of my production, under threat of deadly force.
"...Since we are a representative republic..."
ReplyDelete-JG
No, we're not. No budget has been passed for many years, as required by the Constitution. The president just spends like a dictator. It's facism (read Sowell, or look up the technical political definition).
==========
I embrace the core tenents of western civilization; theMagan Carta, the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers, John Locke and Jefferson, Plato, Socrates, Spooner, Bastiat and Von Mises, and Solzhenitsyn: An American, a classical liberal of western civilization. I believe in the value of the individual, and the natural right of individuals to be left alone. Whereas Marxism is the enslavement of the individual. Marxism is fundamentally anti-western civilization, and anti-american. JFK fought marxism. But you know that.
People came to America to get away from oppressive governments. Germans, Irish, Scots. We came here to be responsible for ourselves. When the Tories tried to impose their tyranny upon the people, the people declared that they would not be serfs.
"I am a Free man, From a Free Country".
-?i forget the name?, just before being executed by Ceasar
"Who's going to kill you? The government doesn't kill tax cheats."
ReplyDelete-JG
Waco started over a $200 tax. Tanks and firebombs and swat teams. They killed the women and children over $200. (Look it up.)
Ruby Ridge... $200 tax.
Delete"- What solution do you propose?"
ReplyDelete-JG
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
"Sic Semper Tyrannis"
Always.
You may enjoy bowing down and licking things.
I know not what course others may take; but as for me, I'll take Liberty."
- Who is this "we," who have petitioned for redress, and in what fashion was the government petitioned?
ReplyDelete- Exactly how are you forced to pay for abortions?
- If we paid no taxes, we'd have no cops, no infrastructure, no firefighters, no public schools, no regulations for clean air and water, safe food, lawlessness, anarchy. . .Who would want to live in that country?
- Ruby Ridge? Twenty years ago? One very unusual case? That all you've got?
Forgive me sofa, but this seems like an awful lot of convoluted grousing, just because you don't want to pay your taxes. And your parting shot about licking things? C'mon. Just about all humans like to lick other humans. Or are you just trying to circle the conversation back around?
"Who is this "we," who have petitioned for redress, and in what fashion was the government petitioned?"
ReplyDelete-JG
That was the declared cause for a kerfuffle in 1776, with a previous group of tyrants. Maybe you heard about it, but never thought it would apply to your lifetime? You can readthe short document here: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
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It's not about paying taxes. It's about my wealth being plundered, and my Liberties stolen by jack booted thugs. People think my property is theirs for the taking, my children's future is for them to decide, and my life depends on their beneficent dispensations.
You think you can force me to do what you please. I call it slavery. What do you call it.
I call it life. Have you heard the saying, ". . .in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes." That's Benjamin Franklin.
ReplyDeleteLook, I get it that you don't like it. And you have a flair for the dramatic. That's cool. I even understand that you think there should be some sort of revolution, and that we should radically alter America as we know it into your preferred construct.
What I don't get is a) how you would accomplish this, and b) what you think it would look like if you were successful. What is your utopian America?
Life?
DeleteHow is you stealing my money, 'life'? It's theft. Maybe I should endeavor to steal more from you, and you'll begin to understand.
Theft and slavery are not life- They are evil.
It's not that I don't like it- It's that it's evil.
Your enabling of slavery is evil. Slavery is evil.
Stop.
The choice is yours: Support/enable slavery, or not. Or maybe even fight against slavery and for individual liberty, or not.
DeleteThe way karma works is- Don't be surprised when what you choose for others, ends up being your own destiny. Karma is a bitch.
"If we paid no taxes, we'd have no cops, no infrastructure, no firefighters, no public schools, no regulations for clean air and water, safe food, lawlessness, anarchy..."
ReplyDelete-JG
Prior to Lincoln, we paid no Federal Taxes. Yet many wanted to immigrate to America. We had schools and cops and firefighters who answered to their own communities, which funded them. Your assumptions are flawed.
Sending money far away, so the peasants can beg to get some of it back- It's a recipe for disaster (watch the news). It's not working.
If I was paying for cops, they would not be killing my neighbors- They would be protecting us. That's what we need: To connstitute a government to protect our life, liberty, and property.
The current facist system doesn't work (look around). Nothing need be done for it to fail (read the news)-It is failing imminently.
ReplyDeleteWhat would you do- Enable slavery next time around?
Or have you learned that slavery is bad? That forcing people to bow down to the will of others is wrong? That socialism and marxism and facism are horribly twisted wrongs, that always inevitably lead to catastrophic human tragedy (watch the news)? Or will you work to enable the same flawed evils again?
So, you're waiting around for society to collapse, and you think that you (and I) will have a choice in how we rebuild? Do you think the majority of people (who survive the massive collapse of American society) are going to come around to your way of thinking? When is this going to happen, and how will you institute your plan?
ReplyDeleteYou're accusing me of being complicit in your slavery and theft. But we're both in the same boat. Are you currently paying taxes? Are you currently availing yourself of roads, bridges, and other taxpayer-subsidized services? If so, you are just living life like I am. And you're theiving from ME! C'mon, sofa, this is all so overblown.
Think globally. Act locally. I do what I can to not participate in slavery.
ReplyDeleteAnd if the marxists are able to crash the system, then we'll all have stark choices.
Just say no to slavery. And if you see someone supporting slavery, say something. "Stop supporting slavery or be known as a slaver."
Hey James: Stop supporting slavery!
ReplyDeleteAnd when the stealing ("re-distribution") doesn't work, then don't forget the genocide of your fellow travellers. Here’s that table again of mass murderers of their own populations in the 20th Century (summary: marxists+facists+socialists killed over 130 million of their own civilian populations in the last century).
ReplyDeleteCivilians Killed by their own Governments in the Twentieth Century:
Soviet Union (Communists) 61,900,000 1917-1990
China (Communists) 45,200,000 1949-present
Germany (National Socialists) 20,900,000 1933-1945
China (Kuomintang) 10,400,000 1928-1949
Japan (Imperial-Fascist) 6,000,000 1936-1945
Turkey (Muslims) 2,800,000 1909-1923
Cambodia (Communists) 2,000,000 1975-1979
Germany (Communists) 2,000,000 1945-1950
Vietnam (Communists) 1,700,000 1945-present
North Korea (Communists) 1,700,000 1948-present
Poland (Communists) 1,600,000 1945-1948
Pakistan (Muslims) 1,500,000 1971
Mexico (Porfiriato) 1,400,000 1900-1920
Yugoslavia (Communists) 1,100,000 1944-1990
Russia (Czarist) 1,100,000 1900-1917
Turkey (Muslims) 900,000 1918-1923
United Kingdom (Constitutional) 800,000 1900-present
Portugal (Fascist) 700,000 1926-1975
Croatia (Fascists) 700,000 1941-1945
Indonesia (Muslims) 600,000 1965-present
That's the side you're on. Your guys had to kill all their own countrymen "for their own good", or was it "because they wouldn't do what they were told" like you are telling the rest of us to do today? Do I get to choose if I want a 24 ounce soda,or does the central committee decide for me? May I drill for oil on my land, or does the central committee decide for me?
I spent time on the ground in Eastern Europe and Communist Asia. I know what you are supporting. Do you?
speaking of 'drilling for oil on my land'... Do you think an individual may own property? Or does the government own all property? Fundamentally.
ReplyDeleteBecause the owner would get to tell others what they may or may not do with that property-By claim of ownership?
So do you think people own their lives and property? Or are they chattel, property of the gov? Does the gov claim the power to dictate what serfs may do with their body, to put in their body? Sure. So gov stakes it's claim to own us as slaves.
Does all the land, all means of production, belong to the gov, which is the premise on which the gov can tell the tenants what they may or may not do. Fundamentally, who owns the property? A central committee? Are slaves allowed to own property, or only rent under terms dictated by the central committee?
Do you think I'm free? Or do you enable/support those who claim power over my liberty, over my property? Can I drill on my own land, grow the crops I want, open the business I want? Or do you support/enable underlying EPA ownership over what I thought was my property? Do you think I need a license/permission slip to use my property as I see fit? Do I own anything? Or does everything fundamentally belong to the central committee which dictates what may or may not be done with it's property?
See- You support/enable marxism. Really, you do.
Liberty, or slavery?
Property ownership, or tenant farmers?
Kings and Marxists believe they own it all and are endowed with the power to control/regulate their domain.
Unlike Kings or Marxists, we the people have a fundamentally different concept of ownership.
Stop laying claim to us. Stop the aggression against us. Do what you want to yourselves-But leave us alone already.
Sofa, I'm a humble citizen without the power to do anything to you. I support personal freedom and liberty, as long as it does not infringe upon the freedom and liberty of others. If you feel that current laws and regulations infringe upon your freedom and liberty, speak out (not just here in the blogosphere), and work to change those laws. If there isn't a political organization that you are aligned with, start your own. Blaze a trail. I'm all for it. But don't get all finger-waggy and accusey at me. Trust me, my political beliefs are far from radical. I call myself a "liberal Democrat" because that is what fits best. But in truth--as a former Republican--I'm only a few pegs left of center. Take up your fight against a Noam Chomsky fan, or a Michael Savage fan. Those on the political poles. I'm not your enemy.
ReplyDeleteYou say you support my liberty, yet say my land and business and person must comply to controls of a central authority. Marxism.
ReplyDeleteI support your liberty to do anything, except aggress against others. For you are enabling it. Like the guy who just drove the train to Auschwitz, you share in the actions of those you enable and support.
Again. Godwin's Law. End of reasonable discussion.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that citizens don't have any power, in your world view. Only those blessed with government robes from your high church.
ReplyDeleteInteresting pathology.
Are you disavowing responsibility for those you support and enable?
ReplyDeleteOr do you acknowledge you play a role in supporting their theft and slavery?
Or did you just realize you are culpable, and don't want to talk about it?
No, when the person you are arguing against compares you to a Nazi, this is not a rational person worthy of further thought. You have to realize that your conclusions are your own and that I don't share them. Your slavery and theft comments sound like paranoid delusion to me. I'll grant that you feel them deeply. Doesn't make you right.
ReplyDeleteDon't misrepresent the analog. At no point did I say that you were a national socialist. The analogy is to the train conductor who enables them, but denies he is in any way responsible for what he enables.
DeleteThe train conductor swore he was not a national socialist. He wasn't a leader of anything. He didn't support many of their positions. He was just a humble guy, who just happened to be enabling them to achieve their goals.
ReplyDeleteMatches your description of your activities. Except you do publicly provide support for their position.
Shoe fits. Just because it saddens you, doesn't invalidate the point.
And of course, I was pointing out your philosophical fellow travelers like Stalin, Mao, etc- To remind you how your avowed philosophy always leads to tyranny and genocide of enslaved civilian populations.
ReplyDeleteWhile enabling and supporting such horrors, you deny responsibility for your advocacy and for your individual actions.
Just what are my "activities," as you put it? Paying taxes?
ReplyDelete